computing and modern technology didn't play any part in my school education at all,

@rocknroller912 - and practical things like woodwork (or metalwork, or any other *work) played no part in my school education! 

I think I had a few weeks of woodwork lessons, at which point the school decided that I was a hopeless case, and I went off to do something else slightly less practical (it was probably Latin).  Never even made it into metalwork classes.

That, combined with my father also being completely non-practical (though he lost a few fingers in a work accident, so that didn't help him!), meant that I reached my mid-40s accepting that anything involving practical skills meant "getting a man in".

My weeks in the Bailey workshop demonstrated that I actually *could* do woodwork, *could* create things (guitars included), and wasn't as completely hopeless a case as I'd always believed.  That was a huge learning opportunity for me, and - seriously - those weeks changed my life.

Which is why I'll always be hugely grateful for the patience and teaching of Mark.

And, FWIW, I'm not sure anyone really "understands" IT.  We all just struggle with little bits of it, trying to work out how we're supposed to use it, to achieve that great promise of "making our lives easier".

😀

And, FWIW, I'm not sure anyone really "understands" IT.  We all just struggle with little bits of it, trying to work out how we're supposed to use it, to achieve that great promise of "making our lives easier".

@tv101 Computers were just becoming available for the masses when I was a kid and schools were just ordering them in when I was in my final years of high school. My dad bought me a BBC Micro Model B, same as the ones in school, we were learning basic programming concepts in the BASIC programming language. I didn’t really stick with it, it seemed a bit geeky. Since leaving school, I’ve worked as a landscape gardener, paint sprayer and a few other things in between.
I went to different colleges to learn various skills, including computing. As the internet started to hit the mainstream and everything was moving online, I thought it would be best to brush up on my tech skills. I found a City & Guilds Computing course at my local college and signed up. It was a year course and that would give me a basic but sound introduction to life in the modern world on the WWW. As this was later on in life for me and I was now a “mature” student 🤣, I passed the course with distinction. I had caught the bug then though so I signed up for the HND for two years. It was a really interesting course, I learned a lot and also my first taste of higher education, not further education. I also passed that with distinction. 
I was all ready to leave as surely this was enough for me to handle the modern world of computers? Well, I got talked into doing the BSc Hons Degree for another two years. This really was higher education, I thought the HND was tough enough but this was ridiculous. In the end I just wanted my life back and I hated computing by the time I completed the course. 
so, I guess my point is that I have an understanding of computing concepts that most people will never learn about unless you work in the industry. I’m not bragging, it’s just that the concepts and nomenclature used are industry specific. And also, I have come out the other side of higher education, knowing a bit more than the average person and being confident with computers and the internet. 
I’m glad I did it, it gave me knowledge, confidence in myself and improved me as a person but I don’t want to work in the computing industry. Although I wrote good reports and essays, and gave good presentations, completed projects and wrote a lengthy dissertation, there are younger and brighter people to carry the torch. I am from a generation of the crossover, I’ve known life without the internet and now I have adapted to accepting and living with it. There are now younger generations that live and breathe it, they are far superior in terms of computing, so as far as the industry is concerned, it belongs to them.
I’m glad I did the courses, it wasn’t time wasted. The only down side is that just because I have a computing degree, friends and family automatically think I’m an IT help desk. 😳  

Computers were just becoming available for the masses when I was a kid and schools were just ordering them in when I was in my final years of high school.

Ahhhhh - you're a few years younger than me @Boo.  I remember Uni days when other students (not me!) would have to book time "on the computer" to run their databases or analysis programs, etc.  

That said, once I started working life, computers became fairly central to what I did, and have remained so throughout my working life.  I remember being the first person in the company I started work at (this was a large multinational, even back then) to have their own dedicated PC, on their own desk, for their own use!  Everyone else used to have to book time on a bank of shared PCs just outside the IT department (in which most people still wore white coats).

Since then, my working life has always involved IT to some extent, and I've done time in CIO roles - including one as CIO of a software house, so I guess that's about as IT as IT gets!!  

😉

That said, I'd still not consider myself "an expert".  The whole IT world moves too quickly (sometimes just in circles) for anyone to establish real expertise in anything that isn't an "outdated" technology.

I know enough to know what I don't know, and to know that I don't want to know any more ...

Nowadays I just use IT (and it's mainly old IT) to help me do the things I enjoy doing.  

I’ve known life without the internet and now I have adapted to accepting and living with it. There are now younger generations that live and breathe it, they are far superior in terms of computing, so as far as the industry is concerned, it belongs to them.

I'm not so sure that statement is true.

They might know how to use it (internet, et al), but I'm far less sure that they understand how it works, or the implications for them of how they're using it. 

Can they fix stuff if it goes wrong?  Invariably not.  If the phone or tablet doesn't connect, instantly, and load the site they want, instantly, then they'll often just throw a hissy fit. 

Troubleshooting mindset?  Nope.

Workarounds / fixes?  Nope.

They are just consumers, brought up to expect a certain way of doing things.  

That's not meant as a criticism of a generation.  That's just "the way things are".  In my parents day, if something went wrong (washing machine, TV, whatever), you got it fixed.  Either your dad could, or he knew someone who could, fix it. 

Nowadays, you order a replacement because "it's not worth fixing".  We just consume those things, rather than having any knowledge of how they work, or how to fix them.

(Or ironically, you use latest IT technology, and Google how to fix it!).

They are just consumers, brought up to expect a certain way of doing things.  

That's not meant as a criticism of a generation.  That's just "the way things are".  In my parents day, if something went wrong (washing machine, TV, whatever), you got it fixed.  Either your dad could, or he knew someone who could, fix it. 

Nowadays, you order a replacement because "it's not worth fixing".  We just consume those things, rather than having any knowledge of how they work, or how to fix them.

(Or ironically, you use latest IT technology, and Google how to fix it!).

 

You present a good argument @tv101 and especially agree with the consumerism reality, I absolutely hate it. I love that old fashioned world of repairing things instead of just ordering a new one. 

I have to say though that the youngsters I was at college with were pretty clued up and quick to learn new stuff. With people like that, they are young enough to make a career out of it, even though most of the stuff they learn in college will be obsolete by the time they graduate. I saw this with my own eyes and quickly realised that I was now too old and unwilling to keep up with computing innovation. I didn’t have the energy or drive for it so I have fallen back on things I know, such as gardening and making things out of wood.🤣 

It doesn’t matter though, it brings in some money and makes me happy. Learning how to build guitars was part of my celebration of graduation my degree and a yearning for embracing older technologies and values. Make things, break things, fix things. I despise what humans are doing this planet and I can’t stop it so the only thing I can do is find my own little corner to live the way I want to. 

I like to work with my hands, my tools and mainly my spray guns again now. So computers are now just a communication tool and nothing else. 

I’m definitely getting back into my paint spraying again but not in the motor industry. I’ll start by charging for paint jobs on guitars and see what else comes up, if paint will stick to it, I can paint it. The bottom fell out of my gardening business because of covid and I was very depressed at one point so I’ve got to do something positive and assertive to bring my finances back into line. Painting stuff from home means I can work and be here to care for my wife who is now medically retired. 

I have now realised that I’ve strayed from the path of the original conversation quite a bit so I’ll try and bring it back succinctly. 

I’m going to leave the computer industry to the younger IT professionals whilst I make and paint stuff. 🤘😁🤘🎸✨🪚🔨🔧⛏🪛🧰

I think there is a blog area on this forum isn’t there? I may write one about painting and write about customising every day items with paint. 

I like to work with my hands, my tools and mainly my spray guns again now.

From what I've seen of your spraying work, you have a definite skill there.  As long as you carry on enjoying it (ie it doesn't start becoming a job full of hassles, etc), then I reckon you should focus on that.

When you're good at something really useful, and people recognise it, the money usually follows.

(I'll certainly be sending you some, along with a guitar body or two!)

👍

That statement is missing a “don’t” somewhere ...

🤣

🤣

Bloody hell guys you’ve been busy. It’s going to take me weeks to catch up on all the chat..

From what I've seen of your spraying work, you have a definite skill there.

I agree with you there @TV101. I think I need a crash course lesson at yours (or mine) when all this blows over...I think your local(ish) to me 🤘🏻

I think I need a crash course lesson at yours (or mine) when all this blows over...I think your local(ish) to me

You @Deej and @Boo are pretty close geographically.  At least, until Boo emigrates.

Actually, just thought, we should try the Jitsi thing again ...

Jitsi...have I missed something.

Jitsi...have I missed something.

@Boo & I tried it after one of the livestreams.

It's a (free) VC system, like Zoom et al.  I thought it might be a useful addition to the discussions in the livestream chat, and in the forum here.  Also allows us to put faces to names (etc) and talk in a more normal manner.

Also thought it might add something to the community, without us being dependent on Mark running livestreams ... take some of the pressure off Mark in terms of building the community.

Jitsi...have I missed something.

@deej It’s a video conferencing bit of software that @tv101 and I tried out, it works well but we want to try it with more people. 

^^^ @Deej

(One thing you haven't missed is the forum editor being fixed!!)

@deej Another thing you haven’t also missed is @tv101 complaining about the edit button not working. 😉🤣

To be fair I have also complained about that piece of s#!t edit button as well...

When you're good at something really useful, and people recognise it, the money usually follows.

(I'll certainly be sending you some, along with a guitar body or two!)

@tv101 That is true enough, I just hope enough people want guitars painting, amongst other things, I need the money. 

I’m looking forward to painting whatever you send me and that I can successfully complete your specifications. It can be any paint, solid colour, metallic, pearl, flake and candies etc. 

To be fair I have also complained about that piece of s#!t edit button as well...

@mattbeels 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣