Hey Herb - Great Q - THANKS!!

But this is an easy one...No.

Unless you use a solid colour - you can only ever make the wood darker

Bleaching will make it lighter but then it will always go darker when you apply the finish.

Also any stain/colour you apply can only make it darker...

If you do find a way then please let us know...

Mark... do you think multiple coats of aqua based grain filler (as in your acoustic guitar finishing recommendation) would prevent colour change if I finish with Nitro? I'm away from home so can't do an experiment at the moment.

Well maybe it might help a little but don't forget Nitro will also darken (yellow) with age - the more UV or sunlight that hits it the darker it gets.

When you sand a piece of wood it gets lighter and lighter with finer paper until you are done. We call that stage 'in the white' -it is often a shock to folk how much darker the wood goes when you then apply a finish. I often used to wish you could keep it 'in the white' but even if you leave it unfinished the wood itself will darken considerably over time. 

Its one of those things you learn to accept....if you want a light coloured piece of wood then don't start with a dark piece ?

Having said all that it would be wonderful if you or someone out there came up with a method -please let us know!

Just because someone says it is impossible doesn't mean we shouldn't try...

Did you try polyurethane? I use it a lot as a wipe on finish. Mix 1 part polyurethane (oil based, not the water based) with 1 part mineral spirits and wipe on multiple coats (typically one per day). You can even get a high gloss finish if you do it right without any noticable colouration. Youtube is your friend, just search for wipe on poly.....

I have seen this used on videos before but I couldn’t seem to find the one I wanted in the UK. 

Minwax Wipe on Poly is the one I was looking for but I could only find this one that will cost me about £45 for a pint. 

Minwax 40900000 Wipe-On Poly Finish Clear, pint, Gloss https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003W06L0S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_ThR-BbYBZ7Q8B  

45 quid sounds like a rip-off...... Go to a good paint store, buy some quality polyurethane laquer and a bottle of mineral spirits and make your own wipe on. You should be good for about two tenners...

This is good advice Edwin, thank you. I will do just that. 

I have messed up this thread a bit, I accidentally posted some of my stuff in the wrong thread. Sorry about that. 

Good luck! Dispose your used rags safely, they can self-combust spontaniously....

Waterborne lacquers will tend to result in less of a darkening effect although this is something that all lacquer manufacturers are trying to overcome given that they want the water based products to be as good as the solvent based equivalents. In my opinion most waterborne lacquers always look like they are sitting on the surface rather than having soaked in so personally I’m not a fan (with the exception of Sayerlac - a WB PU). I just love the way a good lacquer adds depth to the grain and intensifies its colour.

PS - If Carlsberg made splinters, they’d use wenge! The only plus side is that they are easy to see! Happy tweezering!

Chaps. I've only just seen all your lovely replies (I didn't subscribe to be notified and there's the Christmas thing too).

I have never tried poly so that'll be a first.

Hopefully the splintering stage is over now (it's actually Panga Panga which I think is East African Wenge). The worst bit was using a handsaw to open up the board for book-matching - a few careful inches a day until I got bored.

The guitar was finished with Crimson products... water-borne stain and their finishing oil and wax.

I've sanded back to the wood but do you see any problems with poly adhering on potential oil residue?

thanks for all the input

Herb

to my finishing expert friends...

I have a mind to try the water-based Poly to avoid darkening the wood as much as possible. Is this a bad idea?

If I dilute it more and do more coats will it soak in better and give more depth do you think?

thanks

Herb

Hi,

If it soaks in more it will darken more. You can’t have both depth of finish and no darkening as they are intrinsically linked. Maybe you should just consider using a lighter wood and experimenting with finishes on your next guitar? Lol!

Seriously though, I would be concerned about oil/wax residue causing adhesion issues with a waterborne lacqer. You could end up with one unholy mess.

Darren

Great points Darren, thanks... oil-based it is then.

I had already completed the guitar so the finish lightening project was an after thought - it's not a big deal. 

What was a big deal was my homemade fingerboard was too thick so I had to remove the frets to thin it down. Having done that the whole thing became a project again... review finish, review pickups, review switching etc...

OK - I've tried a 50/50 poly/white spirit rub. Nice finish but still darkens the "Wenge" considerably.

But...

I think I may have found the answer...

Sanding to > 320 grit and then Renaissance Wax. At first it darkened the wood and I was sad but when it dried the magic happened and we're almost back to the original wood colour. I think it'll seal the wood and, when buffed, has a nice satin sheen.

If this doesn't work I'll try (water-based) white chalk paint then sand back to just reveal the lovely grain and seal with the poly rub.

any thoughts most welcome...

I wish I could help you Herb but I don’t have any experience with any of these products. 

Is this a wipe on poly then? What make of poly do you use?

I want to make a good wipe on poly and if I mix it with white spirit so it is thinner, this will then be ready to wipe on? 

I used an oil-based poly varnish from Toolstation and mixed it 50/50 with white spirit. Unfortunately wenge seems to darken considerably at the slightest sniff of solvent. Even the wax darkened it initially.

Anything that soaks in is going to darken the wood be it wenge, cherry or sycamore. You are trying to achieve something that every finishing company and the vast majority of instrument/furniture/cabinet makers are trying to avoid. That there isn’t a massive database of suggestions of how to make finished wood look dry and the grain display no depth really doesn’t surprise me. Maybe some kind of limed wax finish could help lighten some areas of grain to compensate for the darkening of others. How about just leaving the surface sanded and let it pick up a patina through handling and age. Could be an interesting process to document over the years.

Regards

Darren

Unless I get alarms from you guys I think I'm going to fine sand and rub in a few coats of Renaissance Wax. That seems to retain a lighter colour in the wood, maximising the contrast of the grain and should seal the wood and give some protection... anyone throwing their hands up in horror?

Thanks for all your input