I use Spray Max 2k and 1k rattle cans.
How many cans do you find you need, and how long does the 2k remain useable? I know it starts going off as soon as you break the seal, but do you have to get all the coats done in one go or and can you apply a few coats, leave it overnight, then come back scuff sand and add a couple more without having to use a fresh can?
Check out NitorLack ( https://nitorlack.com/en)
Based in Spain, so shipping cost is very reasonable, and available in rattle cans or tins for compressor sprayers. Very impressed with the finish and sands and polishes beautifully.
@darrenking
That's a very interesting range (some of the text in the English descriptions is quite amusingly bad, but I can work out most of what they mean).
Being in Spain is good, at least until the end of the year (it's still an unknown what will happen with shipping and import duties then).
Which specific product(s) have you used? They have five different clear coats it seems.
I've never used this, but have heard some good reports (and seen some good results)
https://manchesterguitartech.co.uk/product/clear-gloss-nitrocellulose-lacquer-aerosol/
Online guitar making courses – guitarmaking.co.uk
If you want to use 2k, you are not limited to using Spray Max in rattle cans. I would say nearly every car body supplies now offers their own 2k clear in rattle cans. Fundamentally it’s all the same stuff with different labels on them so check out your nearest (or online) suppliers and see what they have. Right now I live near Blackpool so I tend to get a lot of paint products from Martin Brown Paints, they do 2k clear in Gloss, Satin and Matt.
https://shop.martinbrownpaints.com/aerosols/clear-lacquer-aerosol
The open time for 2k can depends on the weather and environmental conditions on the day you are spraying. If it’s a hot day, it’s going to go off very quickly so keep the can out of the heat if you can. If it’s a cold day, you have a longer open time but this stuff dries by chemical reaction, it has a catalyst, so it will still become unsprayable within an hour or so. If the weather has high humidity (check your phone app for the day’s humidity percentage) for the day, you can get moisture in the paint/lacquer and it can bloom (a milky look). It’s still a superior product to nitro, that’s why the car manufacturing industry switched to it decades ago. There are hacks with 2k to combat environmental conditions but they can come with problems if employed. If the weather is hot you can use a retarder, this will slow the chemical reaction down and increase the open time. If the weather is cold you can use an accelerator (called Rocket) that speeds up the chemical reaction so it will cure in a reasonable time frame. Using these can hinder the flattening and polishing process when cured so it’s best to stick to the standard stuff and spray on an average day.
I’m not for one minute suggesting I’m the ultimate expert on 2k clear but I have used it professionally for many years and continue to use it for hobbies. I’m always willing to listen to what paint products other people use for guitars, to their experience and expertise of using these products. I think between us all here in this forum we can come up with a short list of acceptable products to use. It’s not about showing off what we know just for the sake of ego, whatever we know we share and make it accessible for others to put into practice.
I might buy a GoPro and make some videos!
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I think between us all here in this forum we can come up with a short list of acceptable products to use.
That's along the lines of what I was thinking when I asked the original question. There's a fairly recent YouTube video by Chris from Highline Guitars where he gives the selection of finishing products he's personally settled on (after trying quite a variety over the years) from which he selects depending on certain criteria such as the look he's after, how quickly he has to get it to a customer and how tough he needs it to be.
A similar sort of shortlist but with products that are available this side of the pond would, I think, be rather useful. As would tips, tricks and warnings from people with experience of using them such as yourself.
Thanks for your info on 2K finishes, very helpful.
@jonhodgson No probs, I think it’s important we are all here to help each other out with everything. I know what you mean about YouTube videos, most of them are American/Canadian and maybe some Australian and it’s difficult to find those products in the UK/Europe. If it’s better for the environment then I’m glad they are unavailable on this side of the pond. It’s definitely something we should all (in the UK) look into to create a list of finishing products, Highline Guitars style, for us here in Europe. It’s a new project and challenge for us.
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John L gave most of the answers ?
Spraymax is available in 400 and 250 ml cans. I spray a light mist coat first and then max. 3 wet coats. 400 ml is too much for a guitar body, so I use 250 ml, although it is relatively more expensive. I typically use 3 cans (about 9-10 coats) in total. For necks I use 1k, because even a 250 ml 2k can is too much for three coats for a neck. You'll end up using only about half the can and the rest will go off..... With a 400 ml can of 1k I am able to completely finish a neck.
For a complete guitar with a set neck I reckon you can use a 400 ml can per session.
Measure once, cut straight away and maybe you're lucky......
@e-den-hertog Thanks, I think the way I’m going at the moment, I would batch spray a few guitars and necks so I could calculate how many cans I would need. So, with doing more than one job, 400ml cans will not be wasted. Using cans as opposed to using a spray gun is more expensive. If you are going to be making and spraying guitars indefinitely, it really does make sense to invest in a spray gun and compressor. It can seem very daunting at first but as you learn, practice and gain more experience, it becomes easy. Before you know it, it becomes second nature and you will be left thinking what all the fuss and worry was about. Think back of when learning to drive, it’s a bit tricky at first but how easy is it now?
A rattle can of 2k clear (on average) is about £20 in the year 2020
https://shop.martinbrownpaints.com/aerosols/clear-lacquer-aerosol?product_id=1320
A 1lire 2k clear kit (with activator, 500ml) for a spray gun (on average) is about £35. In the year 2020
https://shop.martinbrownpaints.com/car-paints/clear-lacquer/2k-lacquer-kit-1l
Rattle cans, once activated, have about an hour to be used and after that the open time has gone and the whole can is unusable.
With the same 2k stuff you mix yourself, you can calculate how much you need, mix it and use it. It has the same open time as a rattle can because it is the same stuff but this way you get little to no waste. So this way the clear coat product lasts longer and you get way more mileage out of the tin. You can paint many guitars with this option. You actually get 1.5 litres of product, 1 litre of clear and 500ml of activator. It goes a long way and it has a long shelf life in its unactivated state. You can open it, mix what you need, put the tin back on the shelf, mix a bit more to use for another job a month down the line, put it back on the shelf........ The can of clear and the tin of activator, when in their separate cans, unmixed will last months and months on the shelf after opening (with the lids replaced, obviously). When I was spraying cars, I used to buy it by the gallon (literally), that works out even cheaper.
It is way more cost effective in the long run to get set up with a spray setup. It doesn’t cost as much as you think for the equipment needed at home, in your garage to get started. You are also not limited to using 2k, you can use the same equipment to spray 1k, Nitro, waterborne, water based etc.....
I’ll do some costings and put a package together of what would be acceptable for a home spray setup. I’m not talking about a huge pro compressor and expensive spray guns, just decent quality stuff you would need at home.
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Only on my fourth build (and My workshop is garden/kitchen table) but I really like this clear coat from Northwest; https://www.northwestguitars.co.uk/clear-gloss-nitrocellulose-guitar-paint-lacquer-aerosol-400ml/ I've managed to get a couple of really nices finishes even when spraying in the back garden (once I learned not to use power tools for flatting/buffing and burning through). The finish in the picture below is Crimson water based stain, several coats of NW clear, flatted with 1500/2000 grit, buffed with Meguiars Ultimate Compound, then some carnauba wax.
I've also used the Crimson high build oil followed by wax which still came out fairly shiny but it's not for the clumsy owner as the finish isn't very tough. The NW clearcoat also works well on top of solid colours.
Guitar making is the art and science of turning expensive wood into sawdust.
Hi
Fortunately here in the U.S. everyone seems to use the abundance of selections of quick dry sanding and clear coat lacquers, different viscosities. Prices range from cheap to expensive. I go cheap $5 cans. I see no difference in most of them. They all come in rattle cans. I do the poorman’s method. After oil staining and or dyeing and dried up, I do 7-8 coats, generally around 5-6 cans worth of lacquer with 3-4 hour intervals between coats. However, just before the final coat I wait 24 hours and I do a gentle wet sanding with 1800 or so grit sand paper to flatten the tiny bumps. I clean it off with a slightly damp cloth and dry. I then do the final coat. On each application of coats with lacquer, I do a super very light coating always to prevent from runs, build ups and drips. Learned that the hardway. Of course always use ventilation mask and proper ventilation in dust free environment. I do it in my outdoor patio hanging through tuner holes tied with a nylon guitar string and a long screw by the strap holes to be able to move it about if need be. These lacquers are dry to touch within 45 minutes or so but I refrain from it for safety measure and I tend to use glossy for a glassy sheen. I leave it alone for a week afterwhich it safe to be able to place it down on your workbench with a clean towel to prevent unnecessary scratches. I install hardware and assemble. At this point I have a fairly decent shiny finish and ready to play. I tend not to place it on a guitar stand or a wall hook. I still hang it with the nylon string tied around the tuners atleast another week. If you are patient, I suggest leave it alone hanging for 2 weeks before assembling. I find that lacquer does not gas off yet at this stage even though it does not affect it by the touch. The foam paddings on guitar stands however gets eaten away and sticks but can be removed with household soap cleaner or alcohol and a gentle rub. At this point I wait for a month or until you no longer smell the finish, generally 4-6 weeks. I disassemble, do another wet sand but a bit more gentle, clean it off and I use a hand held buffer and buff it with either furniture wax polish or car polish. Car polish is a bit abrasive and I tend to stray away from it due to the heat the buffer produces if you are not careful. I take my time doing this and never muscle it through. This produces a mirrorlike sheen and always puts a smile on my face. Best bet if you are patient unlike me, wait 4-6 weeks before you assemble for the lacquer to gas off.
I have used rattle spray oil based polyurethane and wipe on poly as well. Works perfectly well and gasses off faster in half the time as lacquer but I find not as better in result.
Quick tip, works like a charm. When lacquering, layering your coats, if you come across a run, drips or build up, do not touch or try to fix it on the spot! Leave it alone, let it run it’s course. Finish that coat and walk away from it for a day.
Now with a better mindset, use an old credit card or something comprable for a spreader, spread a good thin even layered amount of CLAY WATER BASE grain filler on the affected area and the surrounding area as well. Make sure to just barely cover the highest point of the runs and drips. Let it thouroughly harden and dry up. Now with a rubber eraser, stick 220 grit sandpaper on one side and 320 grit on the other side. Start sanding with the 220 grit slowly and gently and you will start seeing the high spots of the runs and drips. At the same time they actually start disappearing. Pretty amazing. The grain filler actually protects the finish as you sand. Once, satisfied flip your rubber eraser sanding block to the 320 grit and smooth it out further. Vacuum the sanding dust. The beauty of this is now, you can use a damp wet cloth and simply wipe off the CLAY WATER BASE grain filler off til it completely disappears and wala! Like magic, drips and runs is leveled and gone. You then may resume coating. Lord knows such mishaps happen and this had always pulled through for me.
I have used rattle spray oil based polyurethane and wipe on poly as well. Works perfectly well and gasses off faster in half the time as lacquer but I find not as better in result.
@clinton This is what I use, 2K clear. I can spray it one day and polish it the next. You don’t need as much or as many coats. You can apply thicker coats and you only need a good three coats and it’s done. Nitro is far too thin and takes too long for my liking and it’s open to all kinds of atmospheric problems. You could use 1K acrylic clears too.
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@russ and @darrenking Right, first of all a warning. WARNING ⚠️
2K paint products are extremely dangerous and hazardous to health, you need to wear the correct PPE to protect yourself from the atomised overspray when painting. They contain isocyanates which are carcinogenic (cancer causing) and continued exposure, especially without the proper breathing mask, will harden your lungs and kill you. A standard half mask with charcoal filters, even the 3M ones, will not protect you properly. A fresh air-fed full face mask is what is needed to completely separate you from the overspray. You should also wear a full spray suit and gloves. You need to look like you are going to be walking on the moon. Having said that, not everyone does if there is adequate ventilation but they SHOULD! It’s not just breathing it in that is dangerous, getting it on your skin can cause some nasty dermatitis and continued intake through the skin will put strain on bodily organs and eventually cause irreparable damage. Lots of occupational paint sprayers end up have triple heart bypass operations, liver and kidney transplants etc. Occupational asthma is another nasty effect from isocyanate paints.
OK, enough warning for now but please don’t treat this stuff lightly or like your average rattle can, it’s not nice stuff, it’s evil.
Are you still interested? 😁
Right, I’ll find some cans that I think you could use, just be careful.
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You are our Go To Paint Guru.
@russ I am not an expert by any means but I have used a lot of car paints and the accompanying products. I don’t know everything but more than most average people I suppose. I will share what I know, including warnings about toxicity. It would be ethically remiss of me to not give the full picture about the products I know and use. They could have already damaged my health over the years and I wouldn’t mindlessly advise anyone to use them without a warning.
Make guitars, not war 🌍✌️🎸