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jamesbisset
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14/09/2020 2:24 am  

My planned archtop is going to require lots of binding, which requires lots of Precision Routing. My lovely partner (for it is she) has a Dremel MultiPro she says I can borrow. And StewMac (sigh) have a Precision Router Base designed specifically for such a context (the routing not the partner).

Using Ebay, I can buy one without sweating the customs etc, [StewMac Precision Router Base] and I can even get the full package complete with router bit and guide for what looks suspiciously like silly money - £165GBP approx!

But I could also buy an Elmer clone, or just buy some little palm router for a lot less. 

Anyone with previous got experience/advice/recommendation in this context?

Jack of all trades and master of my own destiny. It’s only a small destiny.


tv1010101
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14/09/2020 8:52 am  

I have to preface this by saying that I've never routed binding channels ...

 

If you'd routing the channels *after* you've carved the top, then the challenge will be keeping the router base perpendicular to the channel.  The top will be carved, so you can't just run the router over the top of the body.

You'll either need a sled, or something constructed along the outside of the body, to act as the support for the router.

I think?

That said, I do have a (proper) Dremel, with a router base attachment.  I'm pretty sure that the base wasn't a StewMac purchase, so "other options" are available.  I'll get out to the workshop later and see if it's got details on it.  And take some pics.

Also, I've got a Katsu palm router.  That was recommended to me (by someone who knows what they're talking about - they review tools for some of the publications/sites).  Apparently, the fact that it's blue isn't entirely co-incidental.  Something like £35 from eBay, plus you can get bases for them too.

Pics of that too, later.

For the cutter, I'd check Wealden tools.  Work out the depth of cut, and the necessary diameter of the cutter and the bearing guide.  You might be able to get what you need without it being a "special binding cutter" with the associated "special" price.

😉

For Guitarists and guitar builders everywhere - guitarmaking.co.uk - The Academy of Guitar Making


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Bill Flude
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14/09/2020 9:07 am  

Also look at Axminster Tools - they have router bits and different bearing sizes - might be able to find a combo there that works.

It could also be worth paying the StewMac membership (about $30) as you then get free shipping on orders to the UK - I have been using them quite a bit and haven't got done or customs charges yet.

Measure once........
Measure again.........
Sod it - make tea!


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tv1010101
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14/09/2020 9:20 am  

I have been using them quite a bit and haven't got done or customs charges yet.

Now that's interesting @frocesterbill!!!

I wonder if there's a link between their membership & free shipping arrangement and the absence of customs charges?  Might be a loophole in processes somewhere.  Do packages still arrive by DHL?

 

(and let me know next time you're placing an order  😉  )

For Guitarists and guitar builders everywhere - guitarmaking.co.uk - The Academy of Guitar Making


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Bill Flude
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14/09/2020 9:23 am  

Yes - by DHL - maybe I was just lucky - but 8 orders in a year - some only $10-20 others were $100.

Wouldn't have ordered the $10-20 ones as shipping would probably double that.

 

Measure once........
Measure again.........
Sod it - make tea!


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mark bailey
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14/09/2020 9:31 am  

@frocesterbill

You could still get a bill in the post for the import duties etc...You might be lucky? Since I been using them I think they might have forgot once...let us know!!

Measure twice, cut once...


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tv1010101
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14/09/2020 9:32 am  

The $20 orders are - IIRC - under the threshold for customs/duty.  As you say, if you've got free postage, then small value orders make sense - double sense if they also don't attract customs costs!!

For Guitarists and guitar builders everywhere - guitarmaking.co.uk - The Academy of Guitar Making


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tv1010101
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14/09/2020 1:00 pm  

@jamesbisset

Simple Dremel router base.  It's not precision engineered like the StewMac one (appears to be), but it's done the job that I've needed it to.

20200914 124852

 

20200914 124732

And my eBay special "Katsu" trimmer, which also works just fine for a bargainstatic ~£35.

For Guitarists and guitar builders everywhere - guitarmaking.co.uk - The Academy of Guitar Making


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jamesbisset
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14/09/2020 1:51 pm  

@tv1010101

If you'd routing the channels *after* you've carved the top, then the challenge will be keeping the router base perpendicular to the channel.  The top will be carved, so you can't just run the router over the top of the body.

I have a cunning plan. I’m hoping to use the Bagpress lamination technique with 3D CAD drawn moulds and my design includes around 20-30mm around the top and bottom edges which is completely flat before the arching starts.

That’s the theory. There’s one small flaw. I’ve been working with with Macs in design and code for thirty years, but I cannot get my head round modern 3D apps. All of which either cost a fortune weekly, or think you want to draw and animate a fluffy toy, and all of which have an utterly alien UI.

I’m taking a brief respite to build the Mighty Bench of Bodge!

Jack of all trades and master of my own destiny. It’s only a small destiny.


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tv1010101
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14/09/2020 6:59 pm  

That sounds like a suitably cunning plan.

I empathise re the software too.  The whole rental model really annoys me.  And the tendency of developers to “improve” the UI with every release and/or assume everyone is using a touch interface.

I thought it was just me being a grumpy old git.

 

I need to look at the lamination technique some more ...

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darrenking
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14/09/2020 8:39 pm  

@jamesbisset Hi James, I’m happy to contribute any loan equipment you may need to give this a go and if you can draw/model the mould then I am more than happy to machine it for you on the CNC router FOC (so long as I get to machine one for me!)

I know what you mean about 3D CAD. As an Illustrator user of 30+ years standing, why oh why can’t Adobe bring out an app with a familiar UI? I took the plunge and bought Rhino for Mac Recently but other than modelling and machining a couple of necks I have yet to attempt anything more adventurous! Definitely NOT intuitive and maddeningly impossible to find answers even if resorting to RTFM!

The binding router needs to be able to circumnavigate the perimeter of your guitar without tilting. If you have managed to design the guitar with a 20-30mm flat all the way around then I guess you need a 40mm-60mm max diameter base. Just a quick tip. The threaded part of the Dremel is a 3/4” BSP (British Standard Pipe) thread so if you can get hold of a tap you can cut threads in all sorts of useful little jugs and bases to fit. You can also buy metal fittings in a plumbers merchants that it will screw into if you are into a bit of metal work.

I had an issue with Stewmac sending things with ‘free’ shipping and that is that UK customs don’t believe there is any such thing and apply their own estimated values or the shipping on which they then apply their duties and VAT. My last ‘free’ shipping ended up costing me over £80 for an order valued at £100! Suddenly its not such a bargain!! PS unless you are happy for face to turn blue there is no point even trying to talk to UK Customs and Excise - it’s like trying to have conversation with a small child standing with their fingers in their ears whilst stamping their feet and going naaaaa,naaaaa, naaa, naaaaa!


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jamesbisset
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15/09/2020 10:44 am  

@darrenking

if you can draw/model the mould then I am more than happy to machine it for you on the CNC router FOC (so long as I get to machine one for me!)

*Jumps onto the couch. Jacks in...*

“We’re supposed to start with these operation programs first. That’s major boring shit. Let’s do something a little more fun. How about... 3D CAD!”

Jack of all trades and master of my own destiny. It’s only a small destiny.


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jamesbisset
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15/09/2020 10:51 am  

@tv1010101

I need to look at the lamination technique some more ...

Yeah - Have a look at Mark’s Bagpress Masterclass Using The Vacuum Press thingie, if you haven't already. It’s the future! ? 

Jack of all trades and master of my own destiny. It’s only a small destiny.


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jamesbisset
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15/09/2020 11:00 am  

@tv1010101

And my eBay special "Katsu" trimmer, which also works just fine for a bargainstatic ~£35.

Also available on Amazon. I did notice a few disgruntled users in the reviews and someone on Ebay appears to be doing a roaring trade with Katsu trimmer returns. So I was little spooked when first considering it. Thanks for the recommendation.

Jack of all trades and master of my own destiny. It’s only a small destiny.


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tv1010101
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15/09/2020 12:33 pm  

I did notice a few disgruntled users in the reviews and someone on Ebay appears to be doing a roaring trade with Katsu trimmer returns.

Might just be a case of "right tool for the job" @jamesbisset?

Would I try routing all the cavities in a guitar with this?  No (although it could probably do the job - once, maybe even twice).

As a lightweight trimmer / tidier - then it's fine for the task.

For Guitarists and guitar builders everywhere - guitarmaking.co.uk - The Academy of Guitar Making


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